When I read the Quran for the first time, it - quite frankly - moved me. It moved me to tears, in fact. I sobbed until I couldn't read the words anymore, whispering, "Thank you, thank you, thank you..." It was a shattering experience for a lifelong non-believer, for the daughter of a man who always scoffed religion, for someone who has no Muslim friends, or even devoutly religious friends, and who never saw this coming. Yet here I am, suddenly and irrevocably a believer. Part of me thinks I'm just going crazy... but most of me thinks that such a powerful response shouldn't be ignored.
All that said, I doubt I'll be a good Muslim. I'm WAAAAAAY too liberal to be orthodox, and even some of the more "moderate" elements of Islam are too much for me! But I think even becoming a bad Muslim would bring me closer to God and make me a better person, so I'm going to give it a try. I feel that religion is a tool for bringing us closer to the divine. Not every tool works for every job, or in this case every person, so you need to choose with intelligence and be open to new ideas. It can be a weapon in the wrong hands. Right now, I think Islam is the tool for me.
Mashallah and welcome to the fold. I personally used to be quite liberal, converted to Islam and became quite conservative, and am now moving back to the left of center. It's been a long journey of the self and not always easy but i'm glad to have done it with an open mind and Islam as my guide. I'm looking forward to reading more of you!
ReplyDeleteAlhamdulilah, welcome to Islam. Thank you for your comment on my blog, I appreciate your imput and support. It can get a bit nasty in the blogging world, you'll see. But it's all worth it!
ReplyDeleteThanks so much for your support! I really appreciate it!
ReplyDeleteFirst of all I must say, your page is very meaningful with a background of the blue sky with a layer of rainy (?) cloud. That means there is going to rain anytime and have plenty of fruits going to come out.( sorry for my English).
ReplyDeleteYour research on Qur’an is yielding its fruits,but as we all know that many young teenagers became muslim by chating to some one, or to marry a muslim,or by hearing aadan while sitting in a stadium,or something like attracted by seeing a poster and thought of using it and when tired of using they leave islam.
Many young converted muslimah’s left Islam in one or few years because,
1) They have dumped by their husbands, fiancé or lovers.
2) Their dog died, so there is no god.
3) They did not get support from fellow muslims.
4) They are fed up of using hijabs or niqabs.
5) They think they may get good husband but trapped into a cunning (name sake) non practicing Muslim and suffered a lot.
6) They have no back ups or support from any of their family members when they are depressed or in tension. Then they think they are lonely.
7) They go deep into belief instantly, but never knew how to manage or deal with situations and circumstances, because they have no advisers to cop up with the situation they are facing.
8) their Muslim husbands are not following Islam properly, so these girls thinks that they believed Islam by thinking what they read should be followed by their fellow Muslims,. Then they leave Islam thinking if their husbands are not following why should they?..
and many more.
This means they never believed islam but they thought islam is like fashion designers dresses, when trend changes, they also change.
.We are all tested in various ways by Allah (S.W.T.) in this world.
In the Qur’an, in Surah Baqarah (2: 155), …Allah States unequivocally that He will test us:
Be sure we shall test you with something of fear and hunger, some loss in goods or lives or the fruits (of your toil), but give glad tidings to those who patiently persevere,
Qur’an 2:155.
jazakallah khair,.
masha allah,you are convinced about allah and islam.
ReplyDeletejazakallah khair.
ma'ssalama.
You make some good points, myblog. Luckily for me, I'm past puberty (I'm 25, actually), and I'm not interested in romance with a Muslim man. I am concerned about my own fickle spirituality though. Thats why I don't want to rush in... I plan to spend a year studying Islam and absorbing as much as I can before I pronounce the shahada. At the end of one year, I'd rather be a fool than a hypocrite.
ReplyDelete@myblog
ReplyDeletei know where u got point number 2 .... she didnt leave Islam because of her dog if u didnt know .... she left cause she fell in love with a non muslim islamophobe and he influenced her to leave Islam and made a lie saying her dog died so she couldnt understand Islam ...... how do i know that? well i got my sources from people who knew her personally ....
@blue
myblog made quite valid points .... alot of people that enter Islam get deceived especially by those people who are muslim by name only but remember sister blue that u should *never judge a book by its cover* .... u will(if u do) meet muslims that are shias ,sufis ,modernists etc and r following different sects ...
and of course irshad manji is one of those people who believes that Islam should b reformed and doesnt believe in the Quran when Allah(swt) said “This day I have perfected your religion for you, completed My Favor upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion” (al- Ma`idah: 3)
there are alot of deviants out there that want Islam according to their view and dont care what Allah(swt) said .....
i would recommend u to b very careful of deviants and not to mention islamophobes who will constantly disturb u but well may Allah(swt) guide u and us all to the right path .. ameen
and have a look at some videos of converts if u have the time =) ... wasalam
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iqIeXYTw8E8
Aminah assilmi was a renowned female scholar of Islam she traveled around the United States to give lectures , her personal story has admired hundreds of individuals ,she was also President of International Union of Muslim Women , the organization that has many achievements under its belt.
ReplyDelete"I am so very glad that I am a Muslim. Islam is my life. Islam is the beat of my heart. Islam is the blood that courses through my veins. Islam is my strength. Islam is my life so wonderful and beautiful. Without Islam I am nothing, and should Allah ever turn His magnificent face from me, I could not survive." Aminah Assilmi
she was a devoted christian………………………………………………………………………………………………………………………
Conversion to Islam, or to any other religion for that matter, is not always a simple thing to do. Except for a few fortunate ones, a new Muslim usually face consequences. The convert may face isolation from family and friends, if not pressure to go back to the family faith. Sometimes, a convert may even face sever economic hardship, as in the case of those who are asked to leave the house because of converting to Islam. Some converts are fortunate to continue to be well respected by family and friends, but most of them face minor to severe hardship especially during the first few years after the conversion.
But the difficulty that Aminah Assilimi had to go through and the sacrifice that she had to make for the sake of her conviction and faith is almost unheard of. There are few who could rely so much on Allah as she did, standing firm and meeting the challenges, making sacrifices, and yet maintaining a positive posture and influencing people around with the beauty of what she found and believed in.
She lost most of her friends, for she was “no fun anymore”. Her mother did not accept her becoming a Muslim and hoped that it was a temporary zeal and that she would soon grow out of it. Her “mental health expert” sister thought that she lost her mind. She attempted to put her in a mental health institution.
Her father was a calm and wise man. People would come to him for advice and he could comfort anyone in distress. But when he heard that his daughter became a Muslim, he loaded his double-barrel shotgun and started on his way to kill her. “It is better that she be dead rather than suffering in the deepest of Hell”, he said.
She was now without friends and without family...................
Read her fascinating full story at : http://www.famousmuslims.com/Aminah%20Assilmi.htm
blackb3ard911, I agree that there are a lot of variations in what people think when they think of Islam. Irshad Manji is certainly an inflammatory writer, but I think her goal is to spur debate and thought. I don't agree with everything she says, but I respect that she speaks despite the opposition. Also I think her issues with Islam are not with the Quran itself, but with the interpretations and traditions that have sprung up over the centuries. Thank you for commenting!
ReplyDeletemyblog, I read the story, it was so sad but so amazing. I really hope my conversion isn't that hard! But I'm pretty confident that my Mom will freak out when I tell her, so that's something to look forward to. I'm also trying to figure out what my rights are at work if I pray during my breaks (I would prefer NOT to prostrate in the company break room while my coworkers stare and sip coffee)! Thank you for sharing that story.
ReplyDeleteblue
ReplyDeleteirshad manji has one goal and that is just to legalize gays and lesbians. Her whole issue is that she is a lesbian and she just cant come to terms with the Quran on this issue. But then people like her were already prophesied by Muhammad(sws) in this hadith
“Among my ummah there will certainly be people who permit zinaa, silk, alcohol and musical instruments…” (Narrated by al-Bukhaari ta’leeqan, no. 5590; narrated as mawsool by al-Tabaraani and al-Bayhaqi. See al-Silsilah al-Saheehah by al-Albaani, 91).
she isnt even a muslim anymore when she says that Islam must be reformed cause it doesn't adjust with her sexuality.
and well to end it off a good website if u dont know of it already
http://www.thedeenshow.com/index.php
@ blue
ReplyDeletewell u'll have to show me where it authorized in Islam that we are allowed to beat women/wives cause ive only heard that from Islamophobes and I have never read 1 single hadith in which Muhammad(sws) ever beat any woman.
on the Jizya tax.... dont foreigners living in the US pay tax? ... of course they dont need to pay the zakaat which the muslims pay and furthermore that tax is only a tiny fraction to the tax the people pay in majority of countries pay.
and yes Manji doesnt need to legalize gays in the west but she wants to legalize it in Islam cause she thinks that Islam is now old and that it needs changes. Well gods religion does not turn old like man does and it was revealed 1400 years ago and the Quran has never changed 1 word yet the bible and torah has been totally transformed into something different ... did Manji ever wonder how this is possible? ..
There are good muslims and bad muslims just like there are good people and bad people in every society. The only thing is if i keep on portraying in the media that muslims beat their wives and stuff like that then its like me saying all christian priests rape kids in churches which is a total lie.
irshad manji openly says Islam is backward and needs reform and not just in her 'gay' area part.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fcoUtr1R8kc
Dear blackb3ard911,
ReplyDeleteI am not saying wife beating is authorized by Islam, I am saying that many (not ALL or even most) people believe it is authorized and use Islam to allow it. They use:
Sura 4.34
YUSUFALI: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband's) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all).
PICKTHAL: Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
SHAKIR: Men are the maintainers of women because Allah has made some of them to excel others and because they spend out of their property; the good women are therefore obedient, guarding the unseen as Allah has guarded; and (as to) those on whose part you fear desertion, admonish them, and leave them alone in the sleeping-places and beat them; then if they obey you, do not seek a way against them; surely Allah is High, Great.
Now, I do not believe that God thinks its ok to beat women. I do not think the majority of Muslims feel this way. But some do, and (among other things) Irshad Manji is trying to change the way we use verses like this to justify evil things.
As for hadiths:
Sahih Muslim Book 004, Number 2127:
"... He (Muhammad b. Qais) then reported that it was 'A'isha who had narrated this: Should I not narrate to you about myself and about the Messenger of Allah (may peace be upon him)? We said: Yes. She said: When it was my turn for Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) to spend the night with me, he turned his side, put on his mantle and took off his shoes and placed them near his feet, and spread the corner of his shawl on his bed and then lay down till he thought that I had gone to sleep. He took hold of his mantle slowly and put on the shoes slowly, and opened the door and went out and then closed it lightly. I covered my head, put on my veil and tightened my waist wrapper, and then went out following his steps till he reached Baqi'. He stood there and he stood for a long time. He then lifted his hands three times, and then returned and I also returned. He hastened his steps and I also hastened my steps. He ran and I too ran. He came (to the house) and I also came (to the house). I, however, preceded him and I entered (the house), and as I lay down in the bed, he (the Holy Prophet) entered the (house), and said: Why is it, O 'A'isha, that you are out of breath? I said: There is nothing. He said: Tell me or the Subtle and the Aware would inform me. I said: Messenger of Allah, may my father and mother be ransom for you, and then I told him (the whole story). He said: Was it the darkness (of your shadow) that I saw in front of me? I said: Yes. He struck me on the chest which caused me pain, and then said: Did you think that Allah and His Apostle would deal unjustly with you?..."
Maybe I'm misreading the above quote, or perhaps it was translated wrong. Or maybe its just a story and we shouldn't give it much weight.
I am not aware of a special tax payed only by foreigners in the US. Everyone who earns money in the US pays taxes to the US, with limits or exceptions for the poor and such. If there is a tax only foreigners have to pay that is designed to "subjugate" them, please tell me what its called, I haven't been able to find it. And I am not aware of a tax in the US based solely on personal belief, as the Jizya tax is. I don't think its an accurate comparison.
ReplyDeleteSura 9.29
YUSUFALI: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.
PICKTHAL: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.
SHAKIR: Fight those who do not believe in Allah, nor in the latter day, nor do they prohibit what Allah and His Messenger have prohibited, nor follow the religion of truth, out of those who have been given the Book, until they pay the tax in acknowledgment of superiority and they are in a state of subjection.
As for the Quran never changing, there is evidence that there have been aberrations in the text over the centuries. Check out this link:
http://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/1999/01/what-is-the-koran/4024/
I agree that there are good and bad people of all faiths and beliefs. I don't believe Islam is bad - if I did I wouldn't be converting, would I? I don't thing Irshad Manji thinks Islam is bad, but thats just my opinion. I think she is trying to raise opposition against those who give Islam a bad name. I don't agree with everything she says, but I defend her efforts because I think she has the right as a human being to fight for her beliefs. I say she is a Muslim because I don't think anyone but God has the right to say she's not. So unless God personally visited you and told you she's not a real Muslim, I suggest you stick to just hating her for being gay.
Because I also think reform is a good thing, especially in countries where Islam is used to justify hate and violence. I believe if Islam can't stand up to criticism then it can't be the the truth. Since I DO believe that Islam holds the truth, at least for me, then I welcome people like Irshad Manji to keep me on my toes. So if that's what bugs you about Irshad Manji, then I don't think you're going to like me either.
this vid is about the first part of ur question on Aisha(rad)... This vid was a response to some1 else so dont mind the harsh words at the end of the vid.
ReplyDeletehttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuIXyT7p8C0
The Prophet’s beloved wife, Aa’isha, said of her noble husband(sws): '
He always helped with the housework and would at times mend his clothes, repair his shoes and sweep the floor. He would milk, protect and feed his animals and do household chores'
Not only was he a devoted husband, he also encouraged his companions to follow his example:
'The most perfect of the believers in faith are the best of them in morals. And the best among them are those who are best to their wives.'
http://www.kalamullah.com/best-of-all-husbands.html
well yes reform would b a good thing according to our 'human' opinion ... and i dont hate irshad manji for being gay but because she says this is wrong and that is wrong and it should be like this and that .... and well im just a small timer and i can answer ur question on the tax issue also but if u hold the ideology that Islam should be reformed then it's well futile to say anything .... Theres nothing wrong with Islam , it's whats wrong with the people that follow it according to their point view without consulting the scholars and well irshad manji seriously despises the scholars cause she considers them the biggest villains who distorted the religion which wasnt according to the way she wanted it in which things like adultery , etc should be allowed.
ReplyDeletebut i'll still answer the tax question
http://answering-christianity.com/jizyah.htm
http://www.answering-christianity.com/bassam_zawadi/is_jizya_tax_oppressive.htm
and u provided a perfect example of the questions u asked that laymen like me and u cant understand Islam and its verses without knowing the full context when they were revealed and why they r the way they r .... and that is the perfect reason why we got Islamic scholars who spent their lives studying Islam to tell us their meanings but irshad manji doesnt give weight to the context and the wisdom behind the verse , she only reads the verse and thinks she becomes a scholar by commenting on that particular verse and how it should be according to her
and i would have never said irshad manji is a non muslim unless she started saying stuff like reform in Islam ,etc .... it is a clear hadith of Muhammad(sws) that people who say this type of stuff have left the fold of Islam cause when u say reform Islam(in irshad manjis sense) then that means ur saying god is imperfect? god is perfect and way above our thinking and we are ridiculing god by saying stuff like that
ReplyDeletei dont get why u need manji to keep u on ur toes? .... Islam has always had critics since the time it first began yet Islam started from 1 man ,a prophet , and it is now the biggest religion in the world and also the fastest growing especially among women who outnumber the men 4 to 1 .....
Alot of critics like irshad manji came and left this earth but Islam is still here, unscathed and its still unchanged and it always will b cause Allah(swt) has promised to guard the Quran ...
Dear blackb3ard911,
ReplyDeleteTo your post about whether Aisha was treated well or not... let me be very clear: I DO NOT THINK THE PROPHET WAS A WIFE-BEATING JERK. I think he was probably a good man all-around. And I'm not going to get into a hadith-hurling contest with you. You said you had "never read 1 single hadith in which Muhammad(sws) ever beat any woman." So I found one for you from Sahih Muslim, which is considered authentic at least by Sunni scholars. The very scholars that laymen like us are supposed to believe.
continued to blackb3ard911,
ReplyDeleteAdditionally, although you say as laymen you and I can't understand Islam, you still feel comfortable making claims about US tax policy. Are you a tax expert? Also, as far as I can tell the website Answering-Christianity.com is not a scholarly website, or at least the writer you referenced in your links failed to provide any qualifications. If "scholar" means "person who writes stuff online" then I probably qualify as a scholar too!
I have plenty more to say about the jizya tax, so I think I'll make a detailed post about that in the future. Stay tuned.
continued to blackb3ard911,
ReplyDeleteYes, Irshad Manji does have a problem with scholars who have... wait for it... interpreted Islam. Where in the Quran does it say we need someone else to tell us what to believe? I don't think Manji's issues are with Islam as a religion, but with the way self-appointed authorities have taken it. When did questioning the work of scholars become synonymous with questioning God? Saying the scholars are wrong in their interpretations is NOT the same as saying God is wrong. God is perfect. Humans are not. Scholars are human. Scholars are imperfect. Therefore, they too cannot comprehend God fully. And if they ARE capable of error, maybe we owe it to ourselves and to God to seek the truth ourselves rather than trust the people who authenticate hadiths like Sahih Bukhari, which has a verse saying all women are deficient in both religion and intelligence.
Yes Islam has many critics. All religions do. That's a good thing! Silence is the thing you should fear, not debate. Silence equals atrophy, silence equals death. Criticism, or even just talking without fear, is part of what keeps religions alive. I wouldn't even consider converting to any religion in which I thought I couldn't speak my mind. Also, Islam HAS changed over the course of history. Specific practices and understandings of the texts have evolved with drastic real-world consequences... just look at sharia law. Ijtihad isn't even a new thing, its not something Manji came up with all by herself, its very, very old.
Finally, blackb3ard911, you said, "and i would have never said irshad manji is a non muslim unless she started saying stuff like reform in Islam"... two wrongs don't make a right. Its wrong to claim YOU know better than God who is Muslim and who isn't. Its also wrong to simply label someone an Islamophobe, which is known as "ad hominem"; attacking the person instead of the persons argument. You do yourself (and the points you try to make) an injustice by resorting to such tactics.
Maybe you could start a blog about all the reason you think Irshad Manji is wrong.
TO ALL READERS:This is not a website about Irshad Manji. This post we are commenting on is not about Irshad Manji. The only reference to Irshad Manji on my blog is a link to her charitable organization. If you don't like her or her organization, that is totally fine, don't click the link. I didn't start this website to defend or attack her, and I have only read one of her books and disagreed with at least half of it. I only responded to the claim left randomly here on this comment thread that "she[Manji] isnt even a muslim anymore when she says that Islam must be reformed cause it doesn't adjust with her sexuality." I don't like it when people claim to know who is and isn't Muslim. Thats it.
ReplyDelete@blue.
ReplyDeletei totally agree with blackb3ard911,regarding IRSHAD MANJI..
moreover, irshad manji's link in your blog is an encouragement to the reader to divert or weaken his or her belief in Islam.
blue,
ReplyDeletei think your and irshad manji's view on Islam and Qur'an are one and the same..
you are creating a new cult within islam..asthaghfirullah.
i think backb3ard felt the same as i felt..
thank you blackb3ard for extracting the inner thoughts of blue to me.
@ respectable sister blue
ReplyDeletewhen i said laymen , i said it in the sense that we can't know the context of the verse of the Quran without researching it such as when it says in the Quran *kill all the disbelievers* .. now as a layman i would think we should kill em all but this verse was revealed during war time when the non muslims broke the peace treaty ....and i when i said tax policy of the US , i meant there that everyone has to pay tax and there is no special service for foreigners , other than that i dont know anything bout the US tax system cause i live as far away from the US as one can imagine .....
the scholars were once students also ... the person who runs answering christianity,sami zaatari , is no scholar but whatever he writes is from the backing of the Quran , sunnah and research from scholars other than that u wont see him writing anything and i mean not even a single sentence of his own mind saying *mayb it should be like this cause i dont like this verse in the Quran*
now on the issue of the Muhammad(sws) striking aisha(rad) chest ....
ReplyDeletefirstly Imam bukhari did not write the hadith book in english so the errors made are from the translator
The word "lahada" according to the lexicographers means, "to push" (dafa'a).
The usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as sheikh Gf haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore
Secondly, this calls to an important matter that is related to the Hand imposition of the Prophet - Allah bless him - because it is a gesture associated with driving away evil influence (waswâs) and conferring blessing as the following reports show:
1. Ubay ibn Ka`b said:
"There occurred in my mind a sort of denial which did not occur even during the Days of Ignorance. When the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - saw how I was affected, he slapped me on the chest. I broke into a sweat and felt as if I were looking at Allâh in fear." (Sahih Muslim)
2. Jarir ibn Abdullah Al Bajalî was sent by the Prophet - Allah bless him - on a mission to destroy Dhu Al Kahalasa, the idol-house of Khatham, nicknamed the Yemenite Kaba. Jarr narrates:
"I went along with a hundred and fifty horsemen but I could not sit steadily on horse. I mentioned it to the Messenger of Allah - Allah bless and greet him - who then struck his hand on my chest so hard that I could see the trace of his fingers on it, saying: 'O Allah! Grant him steadfastness and make him a guide of righteousness and a rightly-guided one!' (
Bukhari and Muslim)
More proof that the correct translation is ‘He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore’
Aaishah (Radhiallahu 'Anha) said: "Allaah's Messenger (Sallallahu 'Alaihi Wa Sallam) never hit anything with his hand ever, except when fighting in the path of Allaah. Nor did he ever hit a servant or a woman." [Recorded by Ibn Maajah. Al-Albaanee graded it Saheeh.]
Wife-beating can’t be considered "in the Cause of Allaah" - the reference in the Hadeeth is a reference to Jihaad on the battlefield. "When the prohibitions of Allaah were violated" is a reference to someone committing a crime, and their being tried and then punished by flogging. This is not a reference to the way a husband should treat his wife. So here we clearly see in a sahih (authentic) hadith that Aisha clearly told that the prophet ‘never hit a servent or a women’.
So this is also a clear proof that the usage of the word "struck" is not a correct translation. Rather, the phrase should be translated as (as Gf haddad said):
- He pushed my chest with a push that made me sore
and yes i still havent seen 1 hadith of him beating a woman cause even the wife, Aisha(rad), herself is saying that Muhammad(sws) never hit a woman so there is nothing left to say
*The very scholars that laymen like us are supposed to believe.*
ReplyDeletefollowing a scholar blindly is called taqlid which is haraam by the very scholars themselves.
even the 4 great imams imam abu hanifa , imam shafi , imam hanbali , imam malik all said(im paraphrasing) that if u see something which contradicts with what we have said then slap our fatwa against the wall meaning throw them away ....
*sigh*
ReplyDeleteOk, blackb3ard911, LET ME BE VERY CLEAR:
1) I DO NOT believe that Muhammad beat his wives or that the Quran advocates beating wives. You don't have to convince me, I'm already on board on this one. I believe SOME PEOPLE beat their wives and use their religion to justify that behavior, and its with THOSE PEOPLE - NOT ISLAM - that I take issue.
2) If you don't like Irshad Manji making unscholarly claims about how to interpret the Quran and the Sunnah, then don't quote me some guy on a website making his own claims just because you and he agree. Otherwise it is just other peoples un-educated opinions we are throwing around.
3) If you think that its ok to ignore fatwas if they contradict... then what the heck are we arguing about anyways?
4) My only issue with your posts was that you said she's not a real Muslim. I simply stated that I think its wrong to say that about someone. If you disagree, fine, but I'm gonna keep saying its wrong.
To myblog
Have you been diverted from your faith by just SEEING a link on my page? Really? If you already have an opinion about Manji, I doubt I will change it, and frankly I don't care to. Your faith is your own. If some stranger on a blog can shatter your faith so easily, maybe you need to start prayin' harder.
Also, neither you, nor blackb3ard911, know my "inner thoughts". I have posted only 2 times since starting this blog. If you want to dismiss me that quickly, before I have even begun to share and while I'm still forming my opinions, that is totally up to you. But don't presume to think you know me.
And for the record (I can't believe I even have to say this)... no, I am not forming a cult. If I was, I would have used my hypnotic charisma to turn both of you over to the dark side days ago.... (just kidding about that last part). :)
And to both of you, I am going to say this one final time: THIS IS NOT AN IRSHAD MANJI FANPAGE! I DISAGREE WITH HER IN MANY FUNDAMENTAL WAYS. Its fine that you disagree with her too, but that is REALLY NOT WHAT THIS PAGE, OR THIS INDIVIDUAL POST, IS ABOUT! I am planning to review the book of hers that I read in some future post.... do you think you guys can hold on till then to make a fuss over Manji? Or just start your own blog about all the ways she sucks?
My mistake, blackb3ard911, you did not call Manji and Islamophobe. I apologize for the oversight, and will try to do better in the future.
ReplyDeleteBlue, you said : To myblog
ReplyDeleteHave you been diverted from your faith by just SEEING a link on my page? Really? If you already have an opinion about Manji, I doubt I will change it, and frankly I don't care to. Your faith is your own. If some stranger on a blog can shatter your faith so easily, maybe you need to start prayin' harder.
I never thought you behave like this when I read your first post on this blog. Now I found little arrogance in this reaction. I think this is not a good sign of a to be (pious, piety) Muslim.
You know, why people totally admire, respect and proud of this (watch video) type of converted Muslims?..
1) A British priest who worked in Vatican for 7 years
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvHf5Trrkhg
2) Ingrid Mattson a converted Muslim woman scholar
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LXzPV2G5PFg.
May Allah guide us to be patient, calm and cool in all aspects / reactions of life.
Let us stop arguing on this topic.
I agree with you,…YOUR FAITH IS YOUR OWN.
lakum deenukum waliyadeen.
@ sister blue
ReplyDeleteon point 1 ... well u pointed that hadith for a purpose didnt u? ... if it wasnt to say Muhammad(sws) beat his wife then was it to say that hadiths r lies cause that is the type of hadith irshad manji will bring up and say look at the lies written in the hadith yet she cant even speak arabia and is reading a book translated by some1 who could have made errors which can also b found by a person who translates the Quran
on point 2 ... that some guy doesnt write stuff from his own mind of thought . He writes stuff that he has studied and he provides clear proof from the works of scholars and Quran and hadith. And he debates with non muslims on a regular basis on issues of Islam on an open platform. His name is sami zaatari and he is also a representative of MDI(muslim debate initiative) ....
on point 3 ... did i say to ignore fatwas if they contradict? ... yes some fatwas do contradict but then i hold the opinion here we should follow the fatwa which is more appealing(with the backing of the Quran and sunnah of course) ... and fatwas dont contradict on major issues like shirk(associating partners with Allah) , drinking alcohol , fornication ,etc . Yet Irshad has probably found some stuff like all deviants can which she will claim allows us to fornicate,etc in Islam ...
About calling other Muslims "kafir," we read the following hadith: It is reported on the authority of Ibn `Umar that the Prophet (may peace and blessings be upon him) said: Any person who calls his brother: O Unbeliever! (then the truth of this label) would return to one of them. If it is true, (then it is) as he asserted, (but if it is not true), then it returns to him (and thus the person who made the accusation is an Unbeliever). [Muslim]
I would never call any muslim a kaffir if i did not have the backing of the Quran and sunnah ... Irshad manji openly rejects the sunnah which is the saying of Muhammad(sws) and u expect such a person to be a muslim? ... the testimony of faith is to believe that Muhammad(sws) is the last prophet so why is irshad manji disregarding that part and saying the sunnah isnt part of Islam? ... and trust me she knows about how the hadith are compiled but she rejects them out of ego and pride that she is right and the great scholars are wrong ....
@ respectable sister blue
ReplyDeletei NEVA EVA meant to offend u in any way with what i wrote. and u are write this isnt a manji fan page but since u are showing her links on the side one would think otherwise ...
My main objective as a muslim was to advise and guide u and put u on the straight path of Islam and not on some dumb sect like they have the modernists , quranists , beralvis , sufis , etc .....
I never had the intention to mock u or dismiss u in any way and yes u r right i dont know ur inner thoughts but to guide a new comer to the right path is the duty of every able bodied muslim but if u think that it was offensive and im a fanatic then this will b my last reply and i will let u b cause my duty is to advise a newbie(dont take this in the bad sense) and not to force .....
dear myblog,
ReplyDeleteI apologize if I seemed arrogant, that was not my intent. You accused me of encouraging the diversion or weakening of people's faith because of a link on my blog. You said Manji and myself had the same views on Islam and the Quran - I have already said I disagree with many things she has said. You accused me of starting a cult. My reaction was emotional, I agree, but these are pretty heavy things to accuse someone of, don't you think? I will try to remain cool in the future, but I would ask you, in turn, to refrain from making baseless accusations.
Dear blackb3ard911,
I already explained why I posted that hadith. You said, "well u'll have to show me where it authorized in Islam that we are allowed to beat women/wives cause ive only heard that from Islamophobes and I have never read 1 single hadith in which Muhammad(sws) ever beat any woman."
So I found 1 hadith. That is the only reason I posted the hadith - because you asked. I agree that it may be mistranslated. People can and do still use hadiths like the one I quoted to justify violence.
And you can find any number of hadiths to justify any number of things. You may feel justified in saying someone isn't a Muslim, and have hadiths and the Quran to back you up. I still firmly believe its a bad thing to do, and I have the Quran to back me up too. Only God knows who is right - which is the only point I was trying to make.
blackb3ard911, you are welcome to read and comment here. I welcome advice from all perspectives. But I do feel strongly against declaring who is and isn't Muslim (even when I am tempted to say it too!) because I believe that is something only God can know. I hope you will continue to visit my site, but understand that I will continue to object to any claim that this person or that person isn't a "real" Muslim.
ReplyDelete*I still firmly believe its a bad thing to do, and I have the Quran to back me up too. Only God knows who is right - which is the only point I was trying to make.*
ReplyDeletewell i'd like to see that evidence and in response ill post mine as of ..... now
Proof of the importance of the Sunnah
(1) The Qur’aan speaks of the importance of the Sunnah, for example:
(a) Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “He who obeys the Messenger has indeed obeyed Allaah . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:80] Allaah described obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him) as being a part of obedience to Him. Then He made a connection between obedience to Him and obedience to the Prophet (peace be upon him): “O you who believe! Obey Allaah and obey the Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]
(b) Allaah warns us not to go against the Prophet (peace be upon him), and states that whoever disobeys him will be doomed to eternal Hell. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “. . . And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment beware, lest some fitnah (trial, affliction, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Nur 24:63]
(c) Allaah has made obedience to His Prophet a religious duty; resisting or opposing it is a sign of hypocrisy: “”But no, by your Lord, they can have no Faith, until they make you [Muhammad] judge in all disputes between them, and find in themselves no resistance against your decisions, and accept (them) with full submission.” [al-Nisaa’ 4:65]
(d) Allaah commands His slaves to respond to Him and His Messenger: “O you who believe! Answer Allaah (by obeying Him) and (His) Messenger when he calls you to that which will give you life . . .” [al-Anfaal 8:24]
(e) Allaah also commands His slaves to refer all disputes to him: “. . . (And) if you differ in anything amongst yourselves, refer it to Allaah and His Messenger . . .” [al-Nisaa’ 4:59]
(2) The Sunnah itself indicates the importance of the Sunnah. For example:
ReplyDelete(a) Al-Tirmidhi reported from Abu Raafi’ and others that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “I do not want to see any one of you reclining on his couch and, when he hears of my instructions or prohibitions, saying ‘I don’t accept it; we didn’t find any such thing in the Book of Allaah.’” Abu ‘Eesaa said: This is a saheeh hasan hadeeth. (See Sunan al-Tirmidhi, Shaakir edition, no. 2663).
Al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, reported that the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: “Would any of you think, reclining on his couch, that Allaah would only describe what is forbidden in the Qur’aan? I tell you, by Allaah, that I have warned and commanded and prohibited things that are as important as what is in the Qur’aan, if not more so.” (Reported by Abu Dawud, Kitaab al-Khiraj wa’l-imaarah wa’l-fay’).
(b) Abu Dawud also reported from al-’Irbaad ibn Saariyah, may Allaah be pleased with him, that “the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) led us in prayer one day, then he turned to us and exhorted us strongly . . . (he said), ‘Pay attention to my sunnah (way) and the way of the Rightly-guided Khaleefahs after me, adhere to it and hold fast to it.’” (Saheeh Abi Dawud, Kitaab al-Sunnah).
(3) The scholars’ consensus (ijmaa’) affirming the importance of the Sunnah.
Al-Shaafi’i, may Allaah have mercy on him, said: “I do not know of anyone among the Sahaabah and Taabi’een who narrated a report from the Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) without accepting it, adhering to it and affirming that this was sunnah. Those who came after the Taabi’een, and those whom we met did likewise: they all accepted the reports and took them to be sunnah, praising those who followed them and criticizing those who went against them. Whoever deviated from this path would be regarded by us as having deviated from the way of the Companions of the Prophet (peace be upon him) and the scholars who followed them, and would be considered as one of the ignorant.
(4) Common sense indicates the importance of the Sunnah.
The fact that the Prophet (peace be upon him) is the Messenger of Allaah indicates that we must believe everything he said and obey every command he gave. It goes without saying that he has told us things and given instructions in addition to what is in the Qur’aan. It is futile to make a distinction between the Sunnah and the Qur’aan when it comes to adhering to it and responding to it. It is obligatory to believe in what he has told us, and to obey his instructions.
The RULING concerning those who deny the importance of the Sunnah is that they are KAAFIRS, because they deny and reject a well-known and undeniable part of the religion.
whether you remove the link of IRSHAD MANJI on your blog,and stay a devoted MUSLIM,
ReplyDeleteOR
let IRSHAD MANJI link be there on your blog and be a "to be member of IRSHAD MANJI PARTY".
I'm going slightly off topic here, blackb3ard911, but I was curious if you believe women are deficient in their intelligence and religion, as the hadiths indicate the Prophet stated? I'm not trying to judge because you value the sunnah (most Muslims do and that is a major part of Muslim life), but I was just curious if you believe ALL the hadiths... and if not, how did you decide which ones to follow?
ReplyDeletemyblog, I am not aware of any "Irshad Manji Party". I haven't contributed to her charity, if thats what you mean. If you are aware of an "Irshad Manji Party" then you know more about her than I do.
ReplyDeleteAnd the link is staying right where it is, thank you very much. I don't think valuing the right to have an opinion means someone is a bad Muslim, and if you do, then why should your opinion count instead?
LakumDdeenukum waliyadeen..
ReplyDelete*********************************************
2:90
Miserable is the price for which they have sold their souls, in that they deny (the revelation) which Allah has sent down, in insolent envy that Allah of His Grace should send it to any of His servants He pleases: Thus have they drawn on themselves Wrath upon Wrath. And humiliating is the punishment of those who reject Faith.
bi'sa mashtaraw bihii anfusahum ...
3:187
@respectable sister blue
ReplyDeletehow do i follow a hadith? .... well its the ones that the muhaditheen classify accordingly after doing their research on them using a technique called isnaad(chain of command) ... heres the link in which jonathan brown can explain it much better on how the hadiths are classified... it is a bit long like an hour long ...and yes there are instances where some scholars classify a hadeeth as sahih while others dont , so what do i do? ... well i would look into it myself and accept it if the evidence provided forth is more appealing than the other
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dZQ8mwWwwDY
An interesting quote, myblog. Interesting too, that that "the revelation", which started out as meaning the Quran alone, would come to require inclusion of the hadith and sunna centuries after the Prophet died.... the same Prophet who reportedly forbid his people from writing down his sayings, for fear they would confuse the message of the Quran. I'm afraid I can't respond to the other things you said, as I only speak English and a tiny bit of Japanese and Spanish.
ReplyDeleteblackb3ard911... if you are allowed to decide what hadiths to follow based on your own research and the evidence put forth, then why can't I do the same? Even if that means reaching a drastically different conclusion?
Also I'm still wondering if you think all women are deficient in intelligence and religion, as Bukhari states? If not, what was your rational for rejecting that claim?
when i mean research its not like i go researching all the books to verify the chain it flowed down from but on the basis that 2 parties put forth their proofs for u to analyze and use ur own rationality to see which one is more appealing ....
ReplyDeleteand on ur 2nd topic well mayb i forgot telling u but i am not a scholar and well here is the scholars view on this issue .... and dont say its that *some other guys website* cause this is all written by the scholars on this issue and he hardly wrote anything in it ...
http://www.answering-christianity.com/karim/women_not_deficient_in_intelligence_and_religion.htm